AGENDA
=======

0. Preliminaries, 5 mins

1. Directory Service update (Ralph, 20 mins)

  http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=29528187

2. Normative Type self-id and self description

   Review the correspondence and use cases [3].
   Whether alarm, time and description should be in the "metadata" structure (whatever it's called)
   Whether the name of the normative type to which the top level structure must conform,
   can be given as the value of a Sting field, or must be given as the name of a field.
   [I thought that was how we intended to move the identification to the introspection interface?
   Matej says it can be done instead with an optional field in the Structure API. Does that
   imply that NTypes are closely bound to pvAccess specifically?]

[1] http://epics-pvdata.sourceforge.net/home.html#usefulinfo
[2] https://epicsv4.titanpad.com
[3] http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAJvg_wA-GkEdJwKAfSaARtHtPJ-%2BGzs79Rzop%3D%2BuhG6q6RYA4w%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=epics-pvdata-devel

MINUTES
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Present: BD, DH, MK, NM, MS, GS, GW
Scribe: BD

*******
NEW TOPIC: Normative types: Self identification
*******
Currently we cannot get the type_id from the field. 
Proposal - each structure gets and optional field that is type ID
Get - a user gets a subset of the fields - so it may not be an NT type.
What is the API from the server and the client side?
The addition is to implement this method for all fields - getTypeID
For instance - the server uses the introspection to set the ID adn the client uses it to find this out.

Strict type system - the name gives the information. Concern that the types explode.The clients are at least clear about what they are getting.
Alternatively.......
We have the classifications at the higher layer..... how do we identify the portions of the structure that finally define the size and make up of the structure.

Discussion: a table is too general to understand that it is a specific type. A table is a general thing that table viewers can display. But a table that contains an orbit, it has very specific i
nformation - perhaps even by service - one may provide energy - one may not.

What is the load on the system to add set/get ID?
Matej": if it is optional - then there is no change in concurrent code in a matter of minutes.
Adding code to serialize this is still a very small load on the programming.

For instance:
NT_SCALAR - 12 types and 5 optional field (alarm, display, time, descriptor)
This could be 12**5 types
or it could be 12 types with 5 fields that may or may not be there

Matej: Just use ID for generic tools - NT_SCALAR, NT_TABLE - not genotypes. Don't need to say more about weather it is double, has time or dispay, etc....

Nikolay: can we see an application that shows us how this top level ID would work?
Matej - will call get_id - is it NT SCALAR - then subdivide into SCALAR and look at the type of the VAL.

AI: MS Write "alpha" proposal for (complex) type self identification.
AI: GW: Write use-cases for normative type type id and content description.

https://github.com/epics-base/exampleJava/tree/master/shttp://www.google.com/igrc/rdbService/RdbClient.java

******
NEW TOPIC: Directory Service status (Ralph)
******

RL: directory service returns an answer that returns as a bit table.
Query string is generic and returning either a long table or short table.
Woudl like an example of the documentation.
Returns as: channel name, list of properties and tags in the other columns.
It includes column headers for the properties.

AI: GW - provide an example of standard documentation

Service always returns column of PVs, along with columns of proprties, tags. The client can forward only the PVs to subsequent services.


> ./cfClientRunner SR:C01-MG:G04*
             channel               handle   girder  cell  ordinal   devName    elemName   elemType  system    sEnd   length  hostName  symmetry  iocName  aphla.sys.V1SR  aphla.eget  aphla.elemfield.k1  aphla.eput  aphla.elemfield.x  aphla.y  aphla.elemfield.y  aphla.x 
  SR:C01-MG:G04A{HFCor:FM1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      158  FM1G4C01A  FXM1G4C01A     HFCOR    V1SR  37.8822   0.044    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true               true    false              false     true
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{HCor:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      176  CM1G4C01B  CXM1G4C01B      HCOR    V1SR  41.2812     0.3    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false               false        true               true    false              false     true
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{Quad:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      153  QM1G4C01A   QM1G4C01A      QUAD    V1SR  37.3322    0.25    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true                true       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{Quad:M2}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      167  QM2G4C01B   QM2G4C01B      QUAD    V1SR  39.5687   0.283    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true                true       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{VCM:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{QDP:M2}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCM:FM1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{STP:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCor:M}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      150  SQMG4C01A   CXMG4C01A      HCOR    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false               true    false              false     true
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{Sext:M2}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      165  SM2G4C01B   SM2G4C01B      SEXT    V1SR  39.1022    0.25    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false    false              false    false
       SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCM:M}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{QDP:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{Quad:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      153  QM1G4C01A   QM1G4C01A      QUAD    V1SR  37.3322    0.25    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false                true        true              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCM:FM1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCM:FM1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{HCor:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      176  CM1G4C01B  CXM1G4C01B      HCOR    V1SR  41.2812     0.3    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true               false       false               true    false              false     true
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{VCor:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      177  CM1G4C01B  CYM1G4C01B      VCOR    V1SR  41.2812     0.3    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false     true               true    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCM:M}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{HCM:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{QDP:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{STP:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{QDP:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{STP:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
       SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCM:M}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
   SR:C01-MG:G04A{VFCor:FM1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      159  FM1G4C01A  FYM1G4C01A     VFCOR    V1SR  37.8822   0.044    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false     true               true    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{SQDP:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCor:M}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      151  SQMG4C01A   CYMG4C01A      VCOR    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false     true               true    false
  SR:C01-MG:G04A{VFCor:FM1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      159  FM1G4C01A  FYM1G4C01A     VFCOR    V1SR  37.8822   0.044    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false     true               true    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{Quad:M2}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      167  QM2G4C01B   QM2G4C01B      QUAD    V1SR  39.5687   0.283    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false                true        true              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCor:M}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      150  SQMG4C01A   CXMG4C01A      HCOR    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true               true    false              false     true
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCor:M}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      151  SQMG4C01A   CYMG4C01A      VCOR    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false     true               true    false
   SR:C01-MG:G04A{HFCor:FM1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      158  FM1G4C01A  FXM1G4C01A     HFCOR    V1SR  37.8822   0.044    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false               true    false              false     true
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{STP:M2}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{Sext:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      169  SM1G4C01B   SM1G4C01B      SEXT    V1SR  40.2722     0.2    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{STP:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{STP:M2}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{QDP:M2}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
   SR:C01-MG:G04A{SQuad:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      149  SQMG4C01A   SQMG4C01A     SQUAD    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{SQuad:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      149  SQMG4C01A   SQMG4C01A     SQUAD    V1SR  36.7222     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{HCM:M}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{Quad:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      173  QM1G4C01B   QM1G4C01B      QUAD    V1SR  40.8722    0.25    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false                true        true              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{Sext:M2}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      165  SM2G4C01B   SM2G4C01B      SEXT    V1SR  39.1022    0.25    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{SQDP:M1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{QDP:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{Sext:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      155  SM1G4C01A   SM1G4C01A      SEXT    V1SR  37.7322     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{QDP:M2}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{VCM:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{Sext:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      155  SM1G4C01A   SM1G4C01A      SEXT    V1SR  37.7322     0.2    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04B{HCM:M1}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{Quad:M2}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      163  QM2G4C01A   QM2G4C01A      QUAD    V1SR  38.6687   0.283    virtac         A   srvioc            true       false                true        true              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{Quad:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      173  QM1G4C01B   QM1G4C01B      QUAD    V1SR  40.8722    0.25    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true                true       false              false    false              false    false
      SR:C01-MG:G04A{QDP:M2}Fld-I                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04A{Quad:M2}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      163  QM2G4C01A   QM2G4C01A      QUAD    V1SR  38.6687   0.283    virtac         A   srvioc            true        true                true       false              false    false              false    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04A{VCM:FM1}Fld-SP                                                                                                                                   false       false               false       false              false    false              false    false
     SR:C01-MG:G04B{VCor:M1}Fld-I  READBACK      G4   C01      177  CM1G4C01B  CYM1G4C01B      VCOR    V1SR  41.2812     0.3    virtac         B   srvioc            true        true               false       false              false     true               true    false
    SR:C01-MG:G04B{Sext:M1}Fld-SP  SETPOINT      G4   C01      169  SM1G4C01B   SM1G4C01B      SEXT    V1SR  40.2722     0.2    virtac         B   srvioc            true       false               false        true              false    false              false    false
lange@mare:~/NetBeansProjects/V4/directoryService-1.1.1-SNAPSHOT/bin _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 17:28:11
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